Respect for Raid Leaders

If you take any offense to this post, please whisper me in-game or email me and talk to me directly rather than in guild or on this forum. If you have anything constructive to say, then respond here, but if you need to talk about it cause it hurt you, then talk to me privately please.

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We as raid leaders deserve consideration and respect for what we're doing. Lately there has been a lot of heat on me and Kenzy for our decisions and how we handle the raid. The fact is that we do take everyone into account, the raid as a whole rather than the single person. While it's far from me to start a fight, and the last thing i want to do is to cause any more drama or fighting in the guild, I just feel that it needs to be said at this point clearly.

Me and Kenzy are taking a lot of work in leading Covenant raids. We study and practice in PuGs when we can on all the bosses before we get anyone else inside the instances. We work to get everyone raid-ready, such as tweaking their DPS and heal/tank output, or enchanting/gemming, etc. after that we have to be ready to explain (in many ways if need be because people get confused) each fight to the players, be able to organize them and get them in there, all while trying to minimize drama and let the raiders have fun instead of doing this work themselves. We have to watch everyone during the fights, including ourselves, and get all the good leader addons and work with everything to make it easier and funner for other people. To put it simply, we're working so you don't have to.

That's not to say all we do is work, no, we have a lot of fun when we raid too, and we have been pushing to get you guys to do some of this work yourself when you can as well.

But my point is that we do a LOT of work in setting up these raids, and as of late we've seen some things that make my jaw drop out of awe.

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First of all, a common thing I've heard is the raid times. That they don't meet up with one person or anothers and that it's the raid leader's lack of care for them that the raid times don't change.

In response to that, I say "Tough luck". I know, that's cold, but what I mean is that it's impossible to take into account every person's schedule so that everyone is perfect with one raid time, ESPECIALLY since we have european guildies that want to raid. We cannot have an ICC run at 5AM and 5PM. It's just not gonna happen. Euro guildies have a special case since they have a drastically different timezone, but the majority of our raiders are american, and we are on a US server.

Now, in addition to that, we HAVE taken into account euro guildies, even though it is hard and near impossible to meet the time zones together, we have tried. we've set raids a few hours earlier and later, and I can personally say that nearly every raid I've talked with Kenzy about setting up, I've heard her say after I suggest a raid time: "Well, what time would be good for the euro-guildies?"

The fact is we can't please everyone. The only other thing besides our consideration i can offer to Euro-guildies is that there are starting to be a lot more in-game that want to raid. Try setting up your own raid and going for it.

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For Progression runs specifically, people are very sensitive about whether or not they can go. The fact is that we know you try hard, we know you want to go, and we'd love to help you get up there every single step of the way.

BUT, if you aren't ready to go, you aren't ready. We can't just say 'poof' and go "hey, because you're a nice guy and we like you, you can do 8K DPS now for this fight". I would love to have all of my friends in on an ICC run, because it's a really epic and neat raid. But I can't. You need to understand that when we say you can't go, it's not because we don't like you, it's because you aren't able to do what you need to.

I know that's hard to differentiate, but please do understand that we are taking care of the raid as a whole when we do this. Put yourself in this situation:

You're a 4K DPS in ICC-10, and you can pull your weight fine inside. Everyone else is too, but your tank is not able to hold aggro, so you keep wiping on the boss. The tank can be a real nice guy, and I'm sure he would be too if he's in a covenant raid, but that doesn't change the fact that because he's not performing right, he's wiping the raid and 9 other people aren't having fun.

So, in short, if we say you can't go, it's not a personal attack. We need to start saying that more often too, and the reason we don't is because we worry you guys won't understand and will get upset.

If you can take it and understand why we said it, and work to improve so you can get in, then you'll be all the bigger man/woman for it.

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A shorter, more personal note on this, is that there are TWO Raid leaders. Official guild raid leaders that you can talk to, and those are MYRE and KENZY. we both take care of these raids, so neither of us goes overboard. Something I've noticed more than a few times is people disregarding that. We both take a role in setting up and handling these raids, and we deserve the credit for good things and slack for bad equally.

Why I bring this up? Well, to exclude names so as not to bring personal matters into this, I've heard that during one raid Kenzy was leading, a player stated that it wasn't right without Me leading the raid. That was a slap in the face to Kenzy.

And I experienced this too: I had set up a raid and ran through it, leading it all while Kenzy was there as a DPS. When the raid was finished, one player thanked Kenzy for doing all the work, with no acknowledgement to me. That was a slap in the face to Me.

now, this may not apply to everyone, but It's made me personally very hurt when these things happened. So I wanted to address it.

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and finally, although I said it at the start, I feel that we simply just need some more respect and trust.

We do all this work, and while criticism is welcome, it needs to be constructive, humble, non-threatening, and private when possible. More than once I have seen both me and kenzy spat in the face for our work, and more than once both of us have considered just saying Forget it.

This IS a considerable amount of work that we go through since a lot of people want to progress in raid. We understand that not everything we do is perfect, but if something is wrong you handle yourself professionally and you talk to us in private. we've studied and we've had experience, we understand most of this stuff and understand how to handle the raid effectively.

At the least, all I can ask is that. When you have a problem, you talk to the raid leaders in private when you can and minimize the drama in guild and raid. And maybe the occasional thanks for the hard work to both of us would be greatly appreciated. :)

And I have to say, I don't like using this board for a part-vent/part-explanation/part-plea. I'd like to keep this board fun and informative and as much drama off as possible. I just think it needed to be said at this point.

Please note, if you have a response to this post, keep it clean and constructive. If you have been hurt or feel you need to address this in a way that may not be "Clean and constructive" you can by all means contact me PRIVATELY.

Dew means well, and he does what he knows. He knows raids. However, Kenzy and Myre are the raid leaders. I support them. I also, Understand their pain. Back in the day, I lead a few raids through Molten Core, The 5 Dragons, The Razaa, and Even 2 Epic Failures in Blak Temple. I know how if feels to fail. I also Know the ammount of work it takes. I was the raid leader, The Tank, and The loot master. I have led raids into every city and Downed every Leader but Thrall.

Though I have played since Jan. 2005, that doesn't mean I have played the whole time. To be honest, I only recently got back into the Game, Asomack is my third Character. Druid, Thescaredone, Warrior, Defening. My little brother sold my original account back in 2008. I only played a total of 6 months since then.

I say this to explain that in this game, I have a hard time following cause I was a leader some time ago, but I do admit I am a NOOB! I understand most of you dont like this word, but its the only word strong enough to explain how I feel about my playing experience. I apollogize for using it.

Key points:
1. I believe Dew does a great Job. He is an awesome raid, but he is not the Leader.
2. I understand Myre's and Kenzy's Stress.
3. I was once a leader have problems listening sometimes.
4. I Would like to help in anyway possible wth the Guild.
5. We need to have a meeting To establish leaders for the European Raiding group.
6. Myre and Kenzy. Thank You.

Please let me know if I have Wrote anything wrong .
in this.

Dew does his own thing. He's not responsible for getting anyone raid ready (nor are we) if he invites you on a raid that's his thing he's doing and he's nice enough not to step on guild raid people and times.

Dealing with organizing Covenant Goonies is a lot more stressful than organizing raids where everyone has done the raid a million times and the guild is draconian and can boot anyone that violates their standards

Not listening is Covenant's main problem

Participating in our thing is helping. The other day when Solace and Telltale pitched in to help Kenzy get drums for the guild is the kind of participation we're needing.

Right now WT and I are tryin to get Heavygears Mats for his tanking chest piece. I say this to constrain, If you need something for a quest, a raid, or just to goof off, ask.

The not listening in raid-
Blackie has a point. When you dont listen you hurt those that are and I know, I'm not fully geared and one Death runs me about 8g a repair, not counting ammunition lost, flasks lost, potions lost and a big moral loss. I love raiding. I am very patient and will take all the time in the world to make flasks and items of the nature. Ill even sit in a forge all day and smelt your metals and transmute your stuff. SO Please, Pay attention to what is being said in vent, raid chat, and in some cases, in normal chat. I make everything for free, so please keep my repair bill low.

with end game gear one death = 15G to 18G for me depending which toon I'm on. Repairs and helping the guild are the reason I've not got a Gnimo

I simply made this post to bring it to attention. People have started to do better, and we as raid leaders are trying even harder to make everything better for you guys. I just wanted it to be known that some respect for the leaders goes a really really long way.

Last night I had a bit of lag. By the time I was told the second time I had done everything. Not your fault, Not much I can do about it either.

I'm also sorry about my tone. I was highly upset with the lag on my computer last night.

Thx for the invite, thx for the opertunity. It was fun.

Concerning tones, it's just more of a common sense Sorry and forgive. We all know that we're friends here, and during the heat of battle it's a little bit of an excitement and adrenaline thing. If you're really hurt, trust me, Whisper us and we will by all means apologize if you need to hear that. Otherwise, it's just the fact that we've got a lot going on, and our tone of voice is one of the least worries.

Yeah what myre said here is true, regarding tone, I know I can come off sounding really bossy, I sincerely don't mean too, it is trying to hurry and say something on vent, as we gotta push the talk key in the meantime try to correct what is going wrong...

IE. party member is dying due to a mob, as llad I am trying to heal that party member, tell the tank and dance around whatever is falling at my feet at the time..

this leads me to quickly push the ctrl button and say in a sharp tone, "priest aggro"

it is adrenaline and juggling. so please if anyone ever has a problem with my tone talk to me, I really am not a bitch though it sounds like it at times